What did Jesus really say?

1.2.4.4 But he doesn't need to say it

Mr. J., you say: "Does Jesus say, 'I am God'? No." I am glad we agree. "...because that would have been misunderstood. Jesus is not the Father (as it would have been thought), Jesus is the Son." What?, are you claiming that Jesus is incapable when telling his disciples "worship the Father" to add the words "...and the Son"? Are you claiming that the people he is talking to are incapable of comprehending that one is the father and the other is the son? Would you have us believe that his twelve apostles were so dense that they could not comprehend the difference between a "father" and a "son"? Are there no words in his language to say "I am not God but His son, worship both of us"? When you claim that Jesus (pbuh) died on the cross, do you misunderstand this to mean that God the "Father" is the one who died on the cross? When you claim that Jesus was "begotten" by God, do you misunderstand this to mean that Jesus begat the Father? Are Jesus' twelve hand-picked apostles truly in you estimation so backward and dense? This is not how Muslims regard them.

With regard to the miracles of Jesus being proof of his Godhead please read my comments about other prophets and their miracles (Section 2.2.3).

What you appear to be trying to say is that the fact that Jesus never told anyone to worship him nor claimed to be God but left it up to them to surmise by themselves is proof that he wanted them to worship him? God must command us to worship him, and Jesus must command us to worship God, but Jesus (pbuh) receives worship "without censure" without asking for it? Why then is the same not true for God Himself? Why did God Himself not simply remain quiet (like Jesus) and expect us to "gather" and "observe" that He wishes us to worship Him. Why does God Himself not receive "without censure" worship until He asks for it? Why?

With regard to the opening verses of John, they have already been dealt with in detail.

Jesus (pbuh) never in his lifetime told anyone to worship him. It was others who did that. Quite the contrary, whenever Jesus (pbuh) spoke of worship, he always attributed it to God and never himself: "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve" Luke 4:8. Notice the words: "Him ONLY." Jesus did not say "US only," or "Him and I only." How could he possibly make it more clear than that? What abstract meaning are we now going to concoct for this verse to show that what Jesus "really" meant was "worship BOTH of us"?

The problem with many apologists is that they "interpret" the words "he" and "him" to mean "we" and "us" when it suits them, and to mean "he" and "him" only when it suits them. In cases such as Luke 4:8, they claim that "him" really means "us." But in cases where God "begets" Jesus, or where God "sacrifices" Jesus, "him" and "he" is God alone and does not mean "us" and "we." Notice the trend?

But there is more:

1. "Jesus saith unto her, ... worship the Father" John 4:2.
2. "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship HIM" John 4:23. Notice: "worship the FATHER," not "worship the Father AND THE SON." Also notice: "worship HIM" not "worship US" or "worship ME."
3. "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21.
4. "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." Matthew 22:37.

Strangely enough, even though Jesus is regarded as the "incarnation" of God, and wholly equal to God in every respect, and all three are "one" God, still, no one has ever gone on and attempted to explain if this is so why Jesus would then need to pray, let alone to his own self:

1. "And he (Jesus) went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will but as thou [wilt]." Matthew 26:39
2. "He (Jesus) went away again the second time, and prayed (to another side of his 'triune' self?), saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done." Matthew 26:42
3. "And he (Jesus) left them, and went away again, and prayed (to whom? To himself?) the third time, saying the same words." Matthew 26:44
4. "And in the morning, rising up a great while before day, he (Jesus) went out, and departed into a solitary place, and there prayed." Mark 1:35
5. "And he (Jesus) went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him." Mark 14:35
6. "And again he (Jesus) went away, and prayed, and spake the same words." Mark 14:39
7. "And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness, and prayed." Luke 5:16
8. "And he (Jesus) was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed," Luke 22:41

etc.

If Jesus (pbuh) "is" God, and if both are different names for one "triune" God, and if all three "persons" are "co-equal, co-eternal, and consubstantial," then is Jesus praying to himself? Is he praying to another side of his own personality? Is he praying to his own essence? Why? Why does the "incarnation" of God need to pray, beseech, sweat, and plead with his own essence? If I have both a father and a number of sons, then can my "fatherly" nature plead with my "sonly" nature to save it from danger? Why? For what purpose?

"Many will say to me (Jesus) in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Matthew 7:22

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