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JESUS CODES: USES AND ABUSES - PART TWO

RESPONSE TO GRANT JEFFREY AND YACOV RAMBSEL

BY: Rabbi Daniel Mechanic

(There is a Yeshua "codes" discussion group on the Internet called 'T-Code'. A woman named Lori runs it. She - and Grant Jeffrey - had responded to Rabbi Mechanic's original paper that refuted the so-called Yeshua "codes". Quotes from "Paper" are from Rabbi Mechanic's original paper).

RESPONSE
It is a well known tactic that when people are confronted with overwhelming evidence that they are wrong, their only recourse is to deflect the main issues by focusing on tangential issues. The only issue here is that the top Codes experts in the world have totally refuted all of Rambsel and Jeffrey's claims and, more importantly, their methodology. Their paper discusses whether or not the Rambsel/Jeffrey examples of Yeshua "codes" were deliberately inserted in the Bible--not Christianity or Islam or any other religious belief system. Nothing in their paper attacks Christianity in any way. The tone of the following remarks is necessarily forceful, but it is heavily muted in comparison to the distortion and misrepresentation of the Codes phenomenon that is being addressed in this response.

Paper:

>> Jesus Codes: Uses and Abuses
>> A RESPONSE TO YACOV RAMBSEL AND GRANT JEFFREY
>> By: Daniel Mechanic1 ( In consultation with Doron Witztum2
>> and Harold Gans3) >>

Lori:

> BTW, Daniel Mechanic is one of the speakers of the Aish HaTorah code
> Seminars.

RESPONSE

A. Aish HaTorah does not hold "Codes seminars." Aish HaTorah gives privately funded one or two day Discovery seminars whose purpose is to encourage assimilated Jews to re-examine the beauty of their own heritage. Codes are only one small part of the Discovery Seminar.

B. Every single word of the paper was written with the consultation, assistance, and agreement of Doron Witztum, Harold Gans and Jeffrey Satinover - the 3 foremost Codes experts, researchers, and authors in the world. The world renowned mathematician and Codes researcher Dr. Eli Rips has also given his approval and agreed to every single word in the paper.

Paper:

>>A recent book aimed primarily at proselytizing Jews to Christianity >>

Lori:

> Incorrect. Nowhere in Yacov's new book does he mention that it is
> directed at Jews. It is being distributed mainly in "Christian"
> bookstores by Grant Jeffrey, a Christian author, and therefore is
> obviously mainly directed at Christians.

RESPONSE
The reality is that these "codes" ARE directed at Jews. One million pamphlets, falsely claiming that there are Yeshua "codes" that prove Jesus is the Messiah, were sent to homes all over Israel. Witnessing Jews with Yeshua "codes" is being reported all over the world. Tens of thousands of Jews in New York and New Jersey alone, have received unsolicited mailings about "Yeshua codes." Every single anti-missionary group is reporting unprecedented proselytizing with this material. Finally, in a recent interview of Grant Jeffrey by Ray Gano, Jeffrey stated "THOUSANDS OF JEWS WORLDWIDE are being introduced to the reality of Yeshua through the proof from their own Hebrew Bible that his name is found in every messianic passage." (Interestingly, Mr. Jeffrey decided to present the facts in a radically different light in his recent letter. "However, we receive letters from TIME TO TIME that indicates that SOME of our readers are Jews who find the material of interest.")

Paper:

>>Although we are restricting most of our comments here to Pastor
>>Rambsel's book, it should be noted that there are other Christian
>>books, articles, videos, internet postings, etc. that repeat
>>Pastor Rambsel's findings or that discuss "codes" found using a
>>similar methodology.

Lori:

> Did anyone notice that they forgot to include "JEWISH" code
> researchers who use the same methodology, i.e., Rabbi Tauber and
> let's not forget, oh Yes, even the Aish HaTorah code seminars .This
> is a prime example of the kettle calling the pot black.

RESPONSE
Incorrect. As everyone can see two lines down, they mention "Jews who made similar errors".

As far as Rabbi Tauber is concerned:

 A. Rabbi Tauber has absolutely nothing to do with Aish HaTorah or Discovery and has never been involved in actual Codes research. All of Rabbi Tauber's so-called "codes" were not discovered by him. Rabbi Weissmandel found them. It is clearly stated in the paper that Rabbi Weissmandel's patterns are not "codes" and are of no evidential value at all, do not prove anything, and cannot be used to prove anything.

B. The only issues that are relevant are the Codes expert's refutation of the Rambsel/Jeffrey claims. All this talk about what Aish HaTorah does or does not do is simply a deflection of the real issue. The issue here is the worlds top Codes expert's refutation of Yeshua "codes" and it's methodology - not what Rabbi Tauber, Rabbi Weissmandel or Aish HaTorah does or did.

C. In any event, this is all simply not true. Only one or two of Rabbi Weissmandel's word patterns are presented at Discovery, for the pedagogical purpose and process of showing that they are NOT Codes (i.e., word patterns that were deliberately placed in the Torah by God) and how one can be easily fooled into thinking that they are, and how referring to these accidental "patterns" as Codes is sheer nonsense. Discovery teachers, at the beginning of their lecture, show the 49-letter "Torah" pattern or the 49 letter "Hashoah" (Holocaust) pattern and then say "What does this prove?? Absolutely nothing! The word "Torah" or "Hashoah" is found in the Torah hundreds of thousands of times. And you will find them, and hundreds of millions of other words, in ANY large Hebrew text, thus showing that these examples in the Torah are also coincidences. In fact, there are hundreds of BILLIONS of coincidental ELS's in the Torah! Therefore, these examples cannot prove anything." There has never been a "retraction" or "change" by Aish HaTorah as to what constitutes a real Code and what types of ELS examples can be used as evidence for the Torah's Divine authorship. It is dishonest to constantly repeat this falsehood and mislead people into thinking that Aish HaTorah uses insignificant and random ELS's to prove something.

D. Grant Jeffrey and Yacov Rambsel's profound confusion, ignorance, and total misrepresentation of the most basic and fundamental concepts concerning Codes is staggering. Perhaps we again need to briefly explain the basic concepts and definitions regarding Codes. It is the consistent use of incorrect terminology by Rambsel and Jeffrey that has facilitated their distortion of the Codes phenomenon.

ELS - This means an Equidistant Letter Sequence. They are NOT Codes! They are accidental 'patterns' that appear everywhere - newspapers, your diary, comic books, this paper, the Torah. The larger the book - the more of them you will find. The Torah, for example, has hundreds of BILLIONS of these accidental and, therefore, meaningless examples.

CODES - These are, by definition, ELS's that were deliberately inserted into a text by the author of that text. There is a Kabbalistic tradition that God inserted Codes in the Torah (ONLY the Torah!). Since God did not tell us which of the billions of ELS's in the Torah are accidental and which ones He deliberately inserted, there is only one way we can determine that a specific ELS may indeed be a deliberately placed Code - and that's by demonstrating through statistics and probabilities that the specific ELS is highly unlikely to be a random occurrence. Therefore, 'Torah Codes', by definition, are ELS's in the Torah whose probability of them being a random occurrence has been proven, by qualified mathematicians, to be exceedingly small. Since ALL the Rambsel/Jeffrey "codes" are completely expected to appear by chance, they are not Codes! They are ELS's. It is incredibly misleading to incorrectly call an ELS a Code, as Grant Jeffrey and Yacov Rambsel do in their books - and it is morally wrong to attempt to "prove" a major theological or doctrinal belief by incorrectly calling an ELS a Code.

STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT - In our case, it means ELS's in the Torah that have gone through rigorous statistical testing and have been verified to be highly unlikely to have been a random occurrence - (I.e., the probability that the ELS is appearing by chance is exceedingly small). The only statistically significant ELS's (i.e., Codes) that have been discovered so far are the statistically verified Rabbis example. (Other experiments have been performed by Gans and Witztum and the results have also been proven to be statistically significant. They are being submitted for publication and are awaiting peer review). These types of examples are the only ones that can be truthfully referred to as "Statistically Significant" or "Codes". To refer to the Rambsel/Jeffrey ELS patterns as "statistically significant" or "codes" - as they constantly do - is simply not true.

STATISTICALLY INSIGNIFICANT - These are ELS's that, statistically, are not unusual or out of the ordinary, are totally expected to occur by chance, and are therefore insignificant. ALL OF THE RAMBSEL AND JEFFREY EXAMPLES HAVE BEEN VERIFIED TO BE STATISTICALLY INSIGNIFICANT. (The Yeshua "codes" are not statistically 'unverified' or 'unmeasurable' - as Mr. Jeffrey incorrectly states in his books and recent response.  All of the Yeshua "codes" have been statistically verified to be utterly insignificant!)  In a book like the Torah, you expect- and will find hundreds of billions of ELS's. You expect - and will find - over 600,000 ELS's of the word Yeshua in the Torah. You expect- and will find - Yeshua (and all of the Rambsel/Jeffrey examples) at an ELS, hundreds of thousands of times in the Hebrew translations of the Koran, Mein Kampf and any Woody Allen book. It pains us deeply to observe someone mislead unsuspecting people by calling an insignificant ELS a "significant code", and then proceed to use this incorrect terminology to "prove" a specific religion to be true.

The quintessential manifestation of Mr. Jeffrey's complete and utter distortion of the authentic Codes phenomenon can be seen in every paragraph of his recent response when he misleads people with grossly incorrect terminology. That these most basic points must be explained to someone writing books on "codes" would be laughable, were it not so tragically revealing as to how confused he is concerning the Codes phenomenon.

SIGNIFICANT - Regarding the Codes phenomenon, the correct use of the word "significant" is very definite and specific. When you refer to a certain ELS as significant, that means, by definition, that it has been statistically demonstrated that the ELS was deliberately inserted (i.e., it's a Code). However, a simple ELS is, by definition, insignificant. In other words, if an ELS has been shown to be deliberately inserted, ONLY then is it a Code, and only then can it be called significant. If it is simply another one of the insignificant billions of ELS's, then it is not - and cannot be called - "significant". Grant Jeffrey's constant referral to insignificant Yeshua ELS's as "significant", thus implying that they are genuine Codes, is fundamentally incorrect. The insignificant ELS's may be subjectively "meaningful" to some people, but they are not "significant".

MEANINGFUL - The term "meaningful" has nothing to do with the fundamental goal of Codes research (i.e., determining if the ELS is a genuine Code). The term "meaningful" lies in the realm of subjective feelings and emotions. Everyone has the right to feel and think that some of the billions of insignificant ELS's in the Torah are "meaningful" to them. People have the right to sound extremely foolish and confused by saying that their ELS's, or the passages where they inevitably find almost any ELS they want , are meaningful to them - despite the fact that their "meaningful" examples and methodology have been shown to be utterly ridiculous, insignificant, and invalid. People do not have the right - and it is morally repugnant - to falsely claim that these subjectively meaningful ELS's are "significant codes" ( i.e., ELS's that have been shown to have deliberately inserted), and to lead people to believe that their subjectively "meaningful" examples are significant, have evidential value, and prove major religious beliefs - especially when these "meaningful" examples have been shown to be insignificant nonsense!

Paper:
>>Pastor Rambsel and Grant Jeffrey are neither scientists, nor are
>>they mathematicians or statisticians,

Lori:
>Nor do they claim to be.

RESPONSE
 A. Then why do they make (incorrect) statistical claims in their books, lectures, and interviews concerning the Yeshua "codes"? Why is there a whole chapter on (incorrect) "probabilities" in Rambsel's book? Why does Grant Jeffrey constantly discuss (fraudulent) statistics in his books, interviews, internet postings, etc.? On page 223 of Grant Jeffrey's book he writes, "Mathematical experts have calculated the probability of 'Yeshua Shemi'... one chance in fifty quadrillion." This is a blatant lie - and he knows it. (Interestingly, Mr. Jeffrey wrote precisely the opposite in his recent response. "We did not state that the codes involving the name "Yeshua" had been subjected to an experiment using statistical analysis.." Please read that quote again - and then read it one more time. He must have forgot to read page 223 of his own book.) As it says in the expert's paper, "there is not even one statistical claim or computation in their writings that is mathematically true". Let's repeat that. "There is not even one statistical claim or computation in their writings that is mathematically true." It is deceptive to claim or imply that ANY of the Rambsel/Jeffrey examples and their methodology have anything to do with science or statistics - or the authentic Codes phenomenon for that matter - as Christian missionaries are publicizing everywhere. In fact, comparing ANY of the Rambsel/Jeffrey examples to the authentic Codes is, literally, like comparing apples to orangutans.

Paper:
>>and are simply disregarding the fundamental requirement for
>>rigorous "validating methods" in domains such as these. >>

Lori:
> Yes, and we know how Jewish code "experts" have been more than
> willing to share their research methods with Christians don't we

RESPONSE What does this comment have to do with the fact that Rambsel and Jeffrey are "simply disregarding the fundamental requirement for rigorous validating methods in domains such as these"? By blatantly evading this issue, we have before us a microcosm of the type of approach being taken by the "Yeshua codes" proponents. The inescapable reality is, if you don't fulfill this number one requirement of Codes research, then all ELS examples, including Yeshua and phrases containing Yeshua, join the hundreds of billions of ELS's that accidentally appear in the Torah and in any large Hebrew text. Since Rambsel/Jeffrey did not prove that any of their ELS's are indeed deliberate Codes and, in fact, the opposite has been shown -then anything and everything they are claiming has absolutely nothing to do with the authentic Codes phenomenon.

Lori:
> For instance barring any Christians from attending the Aish HaTorah code seminars.

RESPONSE
The seminars are privately funded by Jews exclusively for the purpose of bringing Jews back to their heritage. If Christians had similar seminars, and Moslems or Jews came to all of them, constantly disrupted the lectures and lecturers, missionized the participants of the seminar to their religion during the breaks, took the material - twisted and distorted it - and then proceeded to use this distorted material to deliberately mislead and deceive tens of thousands of Christians, wouldn't Christians also have a problem with their attendance?

Lori:
>Is it any wonder that objective research on TCODE has not progressed
>much in the last 5 months and the subjective research has been ridiculed
> out of existence to the point I had to form another group for such research?

RESPONSE
"Subjectivity," and the fundamentally required Codes Verification Process (i.e., demonstrating that an ELS was deliberately inserted into the text) are mutually exclusive! Therefore, "subjective codes" has nothing to do with the authentic Codes phenomenon. To say otherwise reveals a complete lack of understanding of the entire phenomenon. "Subjective codes research " is exactly the same as reading clouds, tea leaves, or tarot cards. It will yield anything you want including "codes" showing Nazis to be saints. In other words, what "subjective codes research" and Jeffrey/ Rambsel are saying is "Don't confuse us with the facts about Codes and Codes research. Our minds are made up about our "meaningful" and "subjective" ELS's. Despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, we have 'faith' that they are genuine."

Paper:
>>The following comments apply, therefore, to all of these works. It
>>should be clear, however, that we are not debating the relative
>>merits of Jewish and Christian theologies in this paper. We are
>>simply focusing on those misuses and misrepresentations of the
>>"codes" that are aimed at proselytizing Jews to some
>>form of Christianity. >>

Lori:
> This is ridiculous. Aish HaTorah and Rabbi Tauber use the same
> methods to proselytize secular Jews to Judaism. Should that be
> outlawed also? Obviously this is a biased analysis by a supposedly
> objective researcher.

RESPONSE
 A. Rabbi Tauber is not Aish HaTorah and has nothing to do with Aish HaTorah. B. It is irrelevant what Rabbi Tauber or Aish HaTorah does or does not do. C. As we already explained, it is absolutely false to say that Aish HaTorah "uses the same methods." How sad that people are resorting to a pathetic deflection of the issues with such irrelevant and false claims.

Paper:
>>Codes Definition
>>.encoded words deliberately inserted into a document - is
>> categorically different.
>>These types of word patterns are Codes that were purposely placed
>> in a document by the document's author....All of the other
>> hundreds, thousands, and sometimes hundreds of thousands, of
>>encoded words that exist in every document in the world are a
>>coincidence (until proven otherwise). If it cannot be proven that a
>>particular "code" was deliberately placed in a document, and a
>>statistical evaluation shows it to be meaningless, their
>>"existence" cannot - and should not - be used as proof of anything. >>

Lori:
> Sounds like they believe that God only encoded "some" of the
> Torah--i.e., he is a God of confusion and left a conglomeration of
> nonsense behind.

RESPONSE
The only "nonsense" taking place is profoundly confused and dishonest people running around and: 1) deceiving people into thinking that the ELS's they found are Codes, when nothing could be further from the truth; 2) misleading people into thinking that the "Yeshua codes" methodology is the same as the authentic one, when nothing could be further from the truth; 3) teaching and writing about a "meaningful" methodology despite the fact that it also yields "proof" that Koresh, Mohammed, Krishna, Moon, etc. are all the True Messiah and the Sons of God.

Paper:
>>Furthermore, encoded words are ordered patterns that can be tested
>>mathematically. The philosophical, religious or spiritual
>>implications of a document with deliberately encoded words that
>>relate to future events in history are a different subject altogether. >>
Lori:
> There you have it folks. He doth talketh out of both sideth of his
> moutheth. All the code researchers that he is putting down do focus
> on the philosophical, religious or spiritual implications of the
> encoded words, even his own Aish HaTorah Code Seminars.

RESPONSE
You have missed the whole point. Although the experts were quite clear in their paper, we'll explain it again. There is a difference between:

A. The implications of the fact that it has been statistically demonstrated that there are deliberately encoded words in the Torah that relate to the future, (i.e.: the author of the Torah is not human.)

B. An interpretation of the encoded words themselves (of course, only after demonstrating that the ELS is indeed a deliberate Code) which was effectively shown in the paper to be, at the very best, mere speculation

In fact, it is precisely this stated distinction which demonstrates the incredible intellectual honesty and integrity that these Codes experts have. They are saying that the ONLY conclusion and interpretation one can reach with regard to the Famous Rabbis Codes is that the author of the Torah deliberately encoded those words and therefore knew the future. They themselves will tell you that the following statement is not true: "the existence of these Rabbis Codes proves that we should follow those Rabbis and the Jewish religion." You won't see Mechanic, Witztum, Gans, Satinover, Rips, etc. running around saying "Wow, names of Rabbis who utterly rejected Jesus and Christianity are encoded in the Torah. Look at that, one of the examples of Codes that have been statistically verified to have been deliberately put in the Torah, are unsaved Rabbis who rejected Jesus and were sometimes killed and tortured rather than accept him! What a disproof of Christianity!" If they would use "subjectivity" and "interpretation" like Rambsel and Jeffrey do, they would have the ultimate proof that the Jews were correct in rejecting Jesus. Why have they not made this statement? Because there is something called honesty and integrity. They know that you cannot interpret any of the specific Codes that have been verified to have been deliberately inserted - (It goes without saying that nobody in his right mind would foolishly waste their time "interpreting" patterns that have been definitively verified to be completely insignificant - i.e., Yeshua "codes").

If any Jew would write a book that claims to have codes proving Jesus was a False Messiah and False Prophet - and would use all the examples shown in part one of this paper - and the hundreds of others that have been found using the Rambsel/Jeffrey methodology - and the well known complex and intuitively compelling ones that were found and written about (but never publicized) years before the "Yeshua codes" were discussed - the same critique would be written about the book. In fact, this is what has actually happened. They mentioned in their article two books written by Jews - there were numerous discussions with these two authors and they were told that their "codes" on Jesus are not codes - and this was before anyone claimed that there were Yeshua "codes". There were two other "codes" books showing Jesus to be a False Prophet that were about to be published a number of years ago that we stopped in their tracks--and this was also before Yeshua "codes" were being spoken about! Why? Intellectual and moral honesty and integrity.

Paper:
>> >Yeshua Patterns
>> >Pastor Rambsel writes in his book how "Yeshua" can be extracted
>> >from passages in Isaiah, Daniel and Psalms.

Lori:
> Lets not be forgetting about the words "Yeshua" and
> "Tummin/perfection, integrity, truth, spotless" encoded next to each
> other starting in Genesis 37:6 from the ayin counting every 214
> letters from left to right and then the adjacent letters to Yeshua
> spell out "Tummin" This just happens to be something the High priest
> wore on his breastplate.

RESPONSE
 Again, you have missed the most basic concepts of Codes and Codes research. Because two of the Hebrew letters in the word Yeshua are the most common letters in the Hebrew language, you will find an accidental appearance of the word Yeshua, or phrases containing the word Yeshua, hundreds of thousands of times in the Torah--in other words, on every single page and in every single passage! We know that all of these examples are coincidences because if you take any Hebrew newspaper, or a Hebrew translation of a Woody Allen book - texts that cannot possibly contain deliberate encodings of the word Yeshua - you will also find Yeshua "encoded" (unlike the authentic Codes) over 600,000 times! This fact conclusively shows how utterly ridiculous and foolish it is to waste time discussing these accidental ELS's. Furthermore, you will also find ELS's of Mohammed, Koresh, Krishna, Moon, and every single person in history that was claimed to be the Messiah, hundreds of thousands of times in the Torah, passing through every single page and passage! You will find other 'Messiahs' encoded near the word "Tumim" in the Torah, and you will also find them 'encoded' in any other large Hebrew text. (By the way, the proper spelling of this Hebrew word is "Tumim" with the letter "Mem" - not "Tumin"). Since this type of "codes research" yields contradictory, illogical, and absurd results, the methodology and all of its results are inherently invalid.

Lori:
> And last but not least in the same chapter let's not be forgetting about a
> phrase encoded in Ez 37:19 starting with the 6th to last yod, counting every
>13th letter spells "Yeshua ri'mon/Yeshua the Pomegranate"

RESPONSE
The correct Hebrew expression for "Yeshua the pomegranate" is "Yeshua HArimon". How can anyone do research on Hebrew Codes if they don't know the Hebrew language ( or if they publish a book on "codes " in the Torah and the cover has a picture of a Torah scroll upside down?)

Lori:
> Let's see the statistical significance of those please.

RESPONSE
Zero. Absolutely insignificant. But if you want to have "faith" that Yeshua Rimon was deliberately encoded, then you should know that Koresh, Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed, Moon, and any person in history who was ever claimed to be the Messiah are all "Rimons" too. They will appear with the Rimon expression in the Torah and in any large Hebrew text.

Paper:
>>Following are only a few examples of the many fundamental errors
>>in Pastor Rambsel's methodology and logic: 1. Statistically, one
>>would expect to find an appearance of "Yeshua" anywhere you decide
>>to look, in almost any document in the world..In fact, the
>>mathematical expectation is that "Yeshua" will appear accidentally
>>in the Torah over 300,000 times (302,800.50 to be exact). . . .
>>.Therefore, the appearance of "Yeshua" somewhere in the Torah
>>would not -and could not - prove anything.

Lori:
> Nobody is disputing the fact that short words will occur multiple
> times in a text.

RESPONSE
"Multiple times"? This statement reflects a complete and total lack of understanding of the Codes phenomenon.. Here are the simple mathematics. In a text containing 304,805 letters, like the Torah, you will find HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of random ELS's. Let's repeat that - There are hundreds of billion of random ELS's in the Torah. You will find approximately 30 billion four-letter ELS's in the Torah. Since there are 22 letters in the Hebrew alphabet, there are 234,256 possible different four-letter combinations (22 X 22 X 22 X 22). Therefore, on average, each four-letter Hebrew "word" will appear approximately 130,000 times in the text of the Torah! (30 billion divided by 234,256). In other words, everywhere - every page - every passage. Four-letter Hebrew words like "Mickey," "Mouse," "Charlie," "Chaplin," "Koresh," "Yeshua", four letter Hebrew curse words, etc. will appear everywhere, hundreds of thousands of times. You will find exactly the same thing in a 304,805-letter section of any Hebrew document. And Yeshua, with its very common Hebrew letters, will appear accidentally not 130,000 times, but approximately 600,000 times, in any large Hebrew text, including the Torah. To which Grant Jeffrey recently responded: Jesus' name is there so many times "because He is the Messiah that the whole Bible teaches about." In other words, Jeffrey is saying that it is precisely because Jesus' name is "encoded" in the Torah hundreds of thousands of times that proves that God put them there on purpose and that all those Yeshua "codes" are not accidental - otherwise, why else is Yeshua's name encoded in the Torah hundreds of thousands of times? Mindboggling nonsense. Reverend Moon's name is encoded in the Torah many more times than Jesus - over 19 millions times!  Koresh, Mohammed, Krishna, etc. are also encoded hundreds of thousands of times in the Torah. If you look for Yeshua in the Hebrew translation (or even in the original) of the KORAN -yes - the Koran - Yeshua will also appear over 600,000 times. You will also find the other Jeffrey/Rambsel "codes" in the Koran. This fact effectively shows how all of their "codes" claims are sheer nonsense. It is absolutely mindboggling how people can make statements or write books about "codes" when they understand nothing about its most basic concepts!

Lori:
> However, if Mr. Mechanic would have paid more
> attention to his research he would have noticed that these words
> often jumble up in one area and are therefore often not to be found
> at all in certain passages (at a reasonable ELS) and who in their
> right mind would use an ELS of 1,000 when there are multiple others
> at a lesser ELS???

RESPONSE
"at a reasonable ELS"?? Everybody read that phrase again - it is just one more manifestation of a complete ignorance regarding the authentic Codes methodology. There is no such thing as a "reasonable ELS". It is a convenient yet fictitious term in the fantasy world of "subjective codes". It is absolutely irrelevant what the specific amount of letters are in the skip distance of any ELS.

Lori:
> If one sticks to the minimum
> ELS of Yeshua which is under 10 then Yeshua only occurs 103 times in
> the whole Torah or only 25 times in the whole book of Genesis.

RESPONSE A. So does Mohammed, Koresh, Moon, Krishna, etc. B. The same thing happens in any Hebrew newspaper, novel, or the Torah with all of its letters randomly rearranged. C. Using your sentence and substituting Yeshua with "Moon," results in the following statement: If one looks in Genesis for minimum ELS's of "Moon" (under 20) Moon is encoded only 628 times (when the search is conducted going forwards.)

Lori:
> Rambsel specifically states that most of these occurrences of Yeshua
> occurred in a verse relating to the Messiah. I would ask them to
> figure the statistical significance of that but you can't
> statistically analyze relevance therefore this is a moot question
> and only points out the inadequacy of statistical analysis in such a
> case.

RESPONSE - YESHUA IN "MESSIANIC" PASSAGES
The issue of "interpretation" and "relevance" has been effectively addressed numerous times in this response. However, we will briefly address it again. After everything that has been written and clearly explained, Grant Jeffrey and Pastor Rambsel still insist on talking about "Yeshua being found encoded in 'Messianic' passages". The errors they make are so fundamental as to betray a total ignorance of the most elementary principles of Codes, statistics, and basic logic.The degree to which Mr. Jeffrey in particular is both out of his depth, and unaware of that fact, is evident in the gross statistical errors concerning prophecy that he makes in every one of his wildly popular books.

We are not saying that a deliberately inserted Code has no relevance to the text it was placed in. If God deliberately encoded a word into a particular passage then, of course, there must be a connection to the text. However, since we are not God, we have no way of knowing what the correct message is that God wants us to get. The nature of the Codes phenomenon cannot provide us with an answer to this question. However, even if one still wants to attempt to interpret the meaning or message of a Code based on the specific passage it was found in, one must first distinguish BEFORE you have demonstrated that the ELS is indeed a Code and AFTER you have demonstrated that an ELS was deliberately inserted into the text. To say that an ELS must be a deliberately inserted Code BECAUSE it is found in a passage that you feel is conceptually connected to that Code is illogical and, sadly, is a clear and potent demonstration of the type of mind and thought process that exists in the people who make such absurd claims. You will find words like Yeshua, Moon, etc. millions of times, backwards and forwards, sideways, upside down, etc. It will appear in every single passage and page in the Bible. Therefore, saying "we found Yeshua in this 'messianic' passage and it proves that the billions of non Christians are all living wrong" is nonsense - and morally offensive - because they don't say how you will also find that word everywhere, in every passage, including passages whose message could be interpreted in the opposite way. In fact, you find conflicting and contradictory information in that same 'messianic' passage because 'Moon' or 'Koresh' or 'Mohammed' are also coded in there. It is only AFTER you have demonstrated that an ELS you found is not like the hundreds of billions of coincidental ELS's that exist in the Torah, and it was deliberately inserted by God, that you can possibly attempt to figure out what was in God's mind when he inserted that Code in that particular passage. This is where the "Yeshua codes" proponents are profoundly in error - they switch the order.

Mr.Jeffrey claims that the proof that these Yeshua ELS's are indeed Codes is BECAUSE "Yeshua appears encoded in key 'messianic' passages" and "at very small jumps". This is, unfortunately, pure nonsense.

1) Yeshua appears at an ELS over 600,000 times - everywhere, every page, and in every passage. Knowing this, how can anyone still babble about "Yeshua in 'messianic' passages"? Furthermore, Mr. Jeffrey's entire "proof" is based on the "fact" that these Yeshua ELS's appear in 'messianic' passages. He fails to tell the innocent reader that it is a matter of great debate - for thousands of years - whether or not these passages are indeed "messianic"!!

2) If you randomly rearrange the letters of these "messianic" passages, you will also find Yeshua there. This clearly demonstrates that the Yeshua ELS's in these passages are coincidences.

3) You will find Mohammed, Buddha, Koresh, Moon, Krishna, etc. in "messianic" passages also.

4) Mr. Jeffrey and Pastor Rambsel mention in their books a number of "messianic" passages where short ELS's of Yeshua, or ELS phrases with the word Yeshua, appear. Some of the passages we are shown that contain these ELS's are: Genesis (3), Isaiah (53), Isaiah (61), Zechariah (11), Psalms (22) Psalms (41), Ruth (1), and Daniel (9). What they neglect to reveal to the unsuspecting reader is that Reverend Moon's name is encoded in EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE PASSAGES ALSO - AND AT SMALLER JUMPS THAN YESHUA!

5) Grant Jeffrey shows on page 224 of his book how Yeshua is "encoded" once, at a jump of 24 letters, in a 'messianic' passage in Zechariah (11). Mr. Jeffrey fails to tell the reader that "Moon" is encoded in this same 'messianic' passage THREE times - and at MUCH SMALLER JUMPS than Yeshua (5, 6, and 15)!

6) On page 226, Mr. Jeffrey shows us how Yeshua is "encoded" once, at a jump of 26 letters (going backwards!!), in a "messianic" passage in Daniel(9). Unfortunately, Mr.Jeffrey is again caught red handed! He conveniently forgot to tell everybody that this Yeshua ELS extends into a completely different passage that is not 'messianic'! More importantly, "Moon" is encoded in this same 'messianic' passage FOUR times - all going FORWARDS - all completely encoded WITHIN this passage - and all of them at MUCH SMALLER JUMPS than Yeshua (3, 3, 16, and 20)! Furthermore, Mohammed is also encoded within this same 'messianic' passage at the small jump of 30!

7) One of the most often quoted "messianic" passages is in Deuteronomy (Chapter 18 - verses 15-22). It is interesting how Jeffrey and Rambsel are silent about finding Yeshua encoded in this famous 'messianic' passage. Their silence is deafening. The reason they don't mention it is because Yeshua does not appear there at all! However, Reverend Moon's name IS encoded in this 'messianic' passage - at the minimum jump of 3!!! In fact, the Reverend Moon code, which begins with the letter "Mem" in the word "Acheyhem" in verse 18, is encoded in the words "I will establish a prophet for them from among their brethren"!! (There are literally thousands of examples of "counter codes")

Paper:
>>This control test illustrates that there is no evidential value at
>>all to the finding of "Yeshua" in the Hebrew Bible. >>

Lori:
> If the 4-letter word Yeshua NEVER has any value then this should
> also hold true for the word YHWH. I'd like to see them explain that
> to the creator of the earth.

RESPONSE
This comment clearly indicates how "Yeshua codes" people don't understand what Codes and Codes research is all about. "No evidential value" means that their existence does not constitute evidence of intentional encoding. To use the mere existence of these ELS's as evidence or proof of deliberate encoding is fraudulent and deceptive. Furthermore, YHWH is encoded hundreds of thousands of times in the Hebrew translation of Mein Kampf and any Woody Allen book. Did God write those books?

Paper:
>>Moreover, it is precisely control tests such as these (among many
>>other types of measures) that were used to validate the legitimate
>>Torah Codes. This was accomplished by demonstrating that, unlike
>>all of Rambsel' s "Yeshua codes," >>

Lori:
> "All"? Perhaps he's forgetting about phrases I mentioned above and
> below that Yacov has found and word pairs with the same ELS right
> next to each other.

RESPONSE
Rambsel's patterns and phrases will be found in the translations of the Koran, Mein Kampf, and any Woody Allen book. This fact proves how all the claims concerning "encoded" phrases are nonsense.

Paper:
>>the legitimate Torah Codes (i.e., "Famous Rabbis") do not appear
>>anywhere else except in the Torah7.>>

Lori:
> How are we supposed to know that when they haven't
>published any more of their research? If we ever get to the
>point where we can proceed with our own research on TCODE
>we may just prove them wrong. But on the other hand how many
>times should we expect G-d to encode the names of Rabbis and where?

RESPONSE
The entire point has been missed - again. The point is that you will NOT find the authentic Codes in random texts, while you WILL find the Rambsel/Jeffrey "codes" and "phrases" in any random Hebrew text. Furthermore, every single Yeshua "code" or "phrase" that will be found in the future using the subjective Rambsel/Jeffrey methodology will also be found in random Hebrew texts. Therefore, it is absolutely ridiculous to use these coincidental ELS's to prove anything, and it reflects terribly on the intellectual honesty and integrity of the people who are doing so.

Paper:

>>4) Rambsel claims that extracting "Yeshua" from "messianic"
>>passages provides evidence that Yeshua is the Messiah. However, we
>>extracted "Yeshua" from hundreds of passages that have no
>>connection to the concept of Messiah. >>

Lori:

> Did they happen to check on either end of the word Yeshua to see if
> there were more words encoded which would change the relevant
> passage to another? Why should they? It might mess up their theory.

RESPONSE

A. We will say it again - If one would read the Mechanic/Witztum/Gans paper carefully, one would see that the most basic and fundamental fact concerning Codes research, and simple logic for that matter, is that the POSSIBILITY of being "subjective," "interpretive," or discovering a message in an ELS based on the passage it was found in, exists only AFTER it has been demonstrated that the ELS has been deliberately inserted in the text and it is indeed a Code! And the inescapable truth is, as these Codes experts showed, that even after you've proven an ELS to be a genuine Code (which Rambsel/Jeffrey have never done) subjective or interpretive comments about that specific Code are, at best, imaginative speculation and impossible to know for sure. To state otherwise is, literally, like saying "In my worldview, and the way I feel like conducting my subjective research and 'interpretation', 2+2=5, and I have a right to believe that."

B. Using the Rambsel/Jeffrey methodology yielded "codes" that Jesus is a False Messiah and False Prophet. "Yeshu" is encoded at the significant jump of seven and Mohammed at the (Islamic) significant jump of 19, both crisscrossing in the passage of False Prophets. There are dozens of very complex and sophisticated examples showing Jesus to be a False Prophet and False Messiah. Does all of this "mess up your theory?"

Paper:
>>Therefore, it cannot, by definition, be used as evidence in the
>>objective validation process necessary to determine whether an
>>equidistant letter sequence is a genuine Code. >>

Lori:
> Did anyone ever recall Yacov stating that he was seeking objective
> validation???

RESPONSE
A. Yes! Why does Rambsel attempt to objectively validate the material in his book with a whole chapter on (false) probabilities?!

B. The most basic and fundamental concept and requirement concerning Codes continues to conveniently go over their heads. We'll say it again. (Although I am now convinced that I am dealing with people who think the following statement has validity: Subjectively, I have a right to have 'faith' that 2+2=5 - even though you can objectively prove that it equals 4.) There are hundres of billions of ELS's in the Torah. Virtually every conceivable word or phrase will appear hundreds of thousands of times at an ELS. Therefore, you must demonstrate that the ELS was deliberately inserted in the text and is not a coincidence. This can ONLY be accomplished through statistics and probabilities - there is no other way! Therefore, you must demonstrate, mathematically and statistically, that the ELS is a deliberate Code.

Paper:
>>.or there are other potential Messiahs that, until now, we
>>were unaware of. >>

Lori:
> How many do you need?

RESPONSE
The whole point has been missed again. The point is that if the Rambsel and Jeffrey methodology yields "codes" showing Mohammed, Koresh, Moon, etc to be the Messiah, then it is shamefully deceptive to only show the Yeshua "codes" because either all these names are appearing by accident, or God is saying they were all the Messiah - which is impossible. You can't have it both ways.

Paper:
>>Rambsel writes how, in Chapter 41 of Psalms, "Yeshua" appears in a
>>"messianic" passage. >>

Lori:
> HALT! Let's not forget about the "PHRASE" that Yacov found in this
> passage, i.e., "Yeshua the polished Jewel" at an ELS of 14 starting
> on the 8th word 1st letter of verse 9 (yod, shin, vav, ayin--chet,
> lamed, yod). I'd like to see the statistical analysis of this one
> please? (this is pg. 89 in the book, btw)

RESPONSE
A. You will find this in a Hebrew translation of the Koran, Mein Kampf, or a Woody Allen book. B. You will find encoded in the Torah that Koresh, Mohammed, Moon, etc. are jewels too.

Paper:
>>6) Limiting our search of the Torah to skip distances of up to
>>only 1000 letters, still yielded the encoded words Mohammed 2,328
>>times and Krishna 104 times. Furthermore, (David) "Koresh", the
>>self-proclaimed Messiah who was responsible for the death of over
>>100 men, women and children, is found encoded in the Torah 2,729 times,
>>at skip distances of up to only 1,000 letters.

Lori:
> Why shouldn't their names appear in the Torah multiples of times?
> They affected a lot of lives.

RESPONSE
The most basic point of Codes and Codes research has been missed - again. "Mickey" and "Bozo" are "coded" into the Torah millions of times -- did they "affect a lot of lives"?

Paper:
>>We have no interest in being facetious about such lofty topics as
>> who is the Messiah.

Lori:
> Well of course not. Anyone with eyes to see can tell that you're not
> biased at all.

RESPONSE
A. And neither is the Christian Codes researcher LaVonne Stiffler, Reverend Mike Somerville of the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada (of which Grant Jeffrey is a member), Pastor Michas of the Nehemiah Trustees Covenant Fund, dozens of other Christian scholars, etc.etc.etc. who are appalled and deeply embarrassed by Grant Jeffrey and Yacov Rambsel.

B. Interesting how the comments stopped at page 6 of the17 page paper and nothing is said about 1) All the contradictory examples that were found using the Rambsel/Jeffrey methodology. 2) All the "subjective" codes 'proving' Jesus to be a False Prophet and False Messiah. 3) The most important statements about Codes that are italicized or in bold. 4) The refutation of "subjective codes" and interpreting any specific Codes. 5) The destruction of their fraudulent statistical claims. 6) The moral challenge to have an unbiased professional confirm, at the very least, the workmanship of their methodology. 7) The exposing of their false scientific claims regarding the Yeshua "codes", etc..etc.etc.

And, of course, who can forget the words of Grant Jeffrey on page 219 of his book that were quoted in the paper: "Another important point to note is that these Hebrew codes do not contain any hidden THEOLOGICAL OR DOCTRINAL MESSAGES." (Caps added) He then proceeds to write books claiming the codes contain hidden theological and doctrinal messages (i.e., Jesus is the Messiah).

Finally, Mr. Jeffrey's mindset and thought process are revealed, for the entire world to see, in the words he concludes his recent response with. Mr. Jeffrey states:

"Gamaliel then spoke the following words of advice to the Jewish council that was considering how to deal with the followers of Jesus: "And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God" (Acts 5:38,39). WE BELIEVE THAT GOD WILL REVEAL THE TRUTH ABOUT THESE YESHUA CODES TO THE MINDS AND SPIRITS OF ALL THOSE WHO SEEK HIM". (Caps added)

Often, when caught in obvious errors, some Christians will retreat to the position that the Jews can't understand because of "spiritual blindness" and all the other Jewish sins. When pressed hard enough, Jeffrey and his ilk are prepared to retreat to the same position - as is evidenced in his concluding statement above. It is this pattern of intellectual capitulation, which makes it very difficult for thoughtful Jews to take certain Christian claims seriously.

Rabbi Gamliel may have said what the Book of Acts claims, or he may not have; in his many other beloved writings he stands forth as a man who was gentle and compassionate, especially to people in error. But there is no doubt that the great early Church father Tertullian (b. 160CE), wrestling with the many inconsistencies he acknowledged in his own developing tradition, said the following: "Credo quia absurdum est." "I believe because it is absurd." This basis for faith was known as the "sacrificium intellectus" - the "sacrifice of the intellect." He was the creator of Church Latin, and wrote, "...the Son of God died, which is immediately credible because it is absurd. And buried, he rose again, which is certain because it is impossible."

The Jew accepts that by the hand of God the impossible may occur; he does not accept that the impossibility of something happening constitutes evidence that it must have occurred, since such a formulation indeed requires the deliberate rejection of God's most precious gift to mankind: a mind.

If Rambsel and Jeffrey wish to rest their Yeshua "codes" cases upon Tertullian's principles, nothing more need be said.

SUMMARY

IT HAS BEEN CLEARLY DEMONSTRATED THAT:
1) ALL OF PASTOR RAMBSEL AND GRANT JEFFREY'S "CODES" REGARDING JESUS ARE NOT CODES, AND HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE AUTHENTIC CODES PHENOMENON.

2) THE METHODOLOGY USED TO FIND THE JESUS "CODES" IS CATEGORICALLY DIFFERENT THAN THE AUTHENTIC CODES METHODOLOGY.

3) THE METHODOLOGY USED TO FIND THE JESUS "CODES" IS INHERENTLY INVALID.

THIS IS BECAUSE:

A. NO OBJECTIVE, STATISTICAL, SCIENTIFIC OR LOGICAL EVIDENCE EXISTS THAT WOULD DEMONSTRATE THAT THESE ELS PATTERNS WERE DELIBERATELY INSERTED INTO THE TEXT.

B. IN FACT, THE EVIDENCE UNEQUIVOCALLY SHOWS EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. ALL OF THE JESUS "CODES" HAVE BEEN PROVEN TO BE STATISTICALLY INSIGNIFICANT (I.E., THE ACCIDENTAL APPEARANCE OF THESE PATTERNS IS COMPLETELY EXPECTED) AND IS, THEREFORE, OF NO EVIDENTIAL VALUE AT ALL.

C. THE RAMBSEL/JEFFREY METHODOLOGY THAT WAS USED TO FIND THESE "PATTERNS" IS INHERENTLY INVALID SINCE IT YIELDS CONTRADICTORY, ILLOGICAL AND ABSURD RESULTS. IT IS, THEREFORE, INCREDIBLY DECEPTIVE TO MISREPRESENT THESE "PATTERNS" AS CODES, AND IT IS IMMORAL TO USE THEM AS PROOF OR CONFIRMATION OF A SPECIFIC RELIGION.

RABBI MECHANIC'S CODES LECTURE

A posting by someone who recently attended a Discovery Seminar accurately described Rabbi Mechanic's Codes lecture. We have decided to include its main points.

The lecture was divided up into three parts. Part one began with him showing the "Hashoah" example and really building it up by discussing the significance of the 49 letter jump, and that the passage it was found in discusses Jews suffering a national tragedy and then reacting to it by questioning God. He really baited the audience that this really proves that the Author deliberately encoded that word, and therefore the Author of the Torah must be God. But he then chastised the audience for being so gullible. He said, "You didn't ask me how many passages Hashoah appears in that do not discuss the Jews dying or suffering, or how many times does Hashoah appear in the Torah!" And indeed, he said, "not only does Hashoah appear in other places, but it appears in every single passage and page of the Torah, because it is encoded in the Torah over 200,000 times! If you find a word encoded anywhere and everywhere, how can you say that the fact that you find it in a specific passage proves it was put there deliberately?" These examples proves nothing, he said, except how gullible uninformed people can be. He mentioned that there are other examples like these being taught and written about by all types of people, and that there are hundreds of thousands of books being sold showing coincidental patterns like Hashoah, the 49 letter Torah example, Yeshua, etc. claiming that they prove something. He then showed us how, in a "messianic" passage in Daniel (chapter 9, verses 24 - 27), Yeshua is encoded and the Christians are running around claiming they have proof, Mohammed is encoded there too and the Moslems are running around claiming they have proof, and Moon's name is encoded there too and the Moonies are running around claiming that they have proof !!

Part two began with an explanation that "since the whole question of Codes is whether they are design (God), or simply random coincidences - a question who's answer can be found only in the realm of statistics and mathematics - honest and objective scientific research must be performed". Then he told us who Witztum and Rips are, their credentials and how they got their research on the Famous Rabbi's Codes published in a peer-reviewed journal called Statistical Science. He then briefly explained the details of Doron Witztum's research - "minimums" and "proximity" etc. Then came descriptions of many Codes examples like Sadat, Gulf War, Diabetes, etc and their possible connection to the text. They were given with passion and it was obvious that he had convinced the entire audience of their authenticity.

Then he threw the curveball. Very briefly, he said "all of these examples have a major problem. When we asked top statisticians to evaluate these examples and measure the odds of them being a random occurrence, they told us that they are statistically unverifiable (not statistically insignificant like all the Yeshua "codes") This means that since they don't know how the experiment was conducted in terms of 'hidden failures' - maybe there were words that Witztum looked for, did not find and he isn't telling us about these failures - we cannot accurately calculate the odds of the Sadat or Diabetes Codes being random. In other words, these types of Codes were found using the EXACT SAME METHODOLOGY as Witztum and the Statistical Science Famous Rabbis experiment (and are, therefore, categorically different than the Yeshua "codes" methodology) but the odds of randomness CAN'T BE MEASURED. Therefore, they are statistically inconclusive (not insignificant, like all the Yeshua "codes"). He then attacked connecting Codes to the text they were found. He explained how "where an ELS appears in a text cannot carry any weight in the process of trying to demonstrate that it is a Code and was deliberately inserted in the Torah, since you'll find all these words in every text and passage.... and interpretation is subjective - something that cannot be involved in the validation process since that process, by definition, must be objective." He then illustrated this point with a story how an anti-Semite once disrupted his lecture by saying that since Hitler was found encoded in the portion of Noah, this proves it was done deliberately because Hitler was a good man like Noah!!!

He then spent 15 minutes discussing the crucial difference between these types of unmeasurable Codes and the insignificant Yeshua ELS's. "Therefore, this second type of Codes cannot conclusively demonstrate deliberate insertion of Codes in the Torah. However, these examples are categorically different than the first type of examples - ELS's like Hashoah, Torah and Yeshua or any of the hundreds of billions of so-called codes that one will find in the text. How are they different? The first category of ELS's has been proven to be statistically insignificant and totally expected by random and, more importantly, the methodology is inherently invalid. But the second category - that's much different - because since they are ELS's found using the exact same methodology as was accepted by Statistical Science, and there is only a statistical problem of calculating the exact odds; and since- unlike all the ELS's like Yeshua, Torah, and Hashoah - you will not find the Sadat, Chanukah and all the other ones I just showed you in any of the control texts - we can intuit - I repeat - intuit, that it is highly unlikely that these are coincidences and they were probably placed in the Torah by it's author."

Then he went on to say how appalled he and people who have spent years of their life researching this phenomenon are. He said that there are Christians who are writing books about "codes" and how sad it is to see how ignorant and confused they are about the authentic Codes. He then read a letter from a " famous Christian writer on Yeshua codes" (it was Grant Jeffrey) and how "this writer deceptively and fraudulently lumps the first category of statistically insignificant ELS's that were found with a fatally flawed methodology, together with the second type of ELS's that were found using the exact same methodology as the Famous Rabbi's example. He writes in his letter - and books and interviews - phrases like ' the Hitler, Sadat, or Yeshua codes". Lumping these three examples together is an unadulterated deception. The Yeshua ELS's and the ' Hitler' or 'Sadat' examples are categorically different intuitively, statistically, and in methodology. The examples like Yeshua are statistically insignificant, the words appear hundreds of thousands of times, you will find them in any large Hebrew text in the world, and the methodology is producing contradictory and absurd results. The second type - Sadat, Diabetes, Gulf War, etc. were found with proven and accepted statistical methodology, are not found in any control texts and are therefore highly unlikely to be a coincidence. To lump the Yeshua ELS's together with the Codes that were found by Witztum, and then tell people that this is proof for Jesus being the Messiah, without informing them that the Yeshua ELS's are a totally different phenomenon, is appalling". He then read further from this letter where this Christian writer accuses Discovery of "teaching codes like Sadat and Gulf War which are the same as what he's doing with the Yeshua codes." He rolled his eyes and said, "how can this man write a book on Codes when he does not understand what Codes is really all about and he can't even permit himself to see the tremendous categorical difference between what he is finding and what Witztum has found??"

Part three began with him saying "but intuition is not enough. We want science, we want statistics and exact odds... " He then spent 30 minutes explaining the third type of Codes - the Rabbis Codes and a few of the other examples of statistically verifiable codes. He ended by saying that the only examples we can cite as powerful evidence of deliberate encoding are the statistically verifiable examples like the Famous Rabbis.

Rabbi Mechanic was then asked, "how can you say that Jesus is not coded in the Torah when he was one of the most important and pivotal men in history?" He said that maybe Jesus's name was deliberately encoded in the Torah, and maybe the Apostles too. The Christians should get a hold of some objective statisticians and scientists, follow the established rules, and statistically demonstrate that God encoded their names in the Torah. But all that would prove, he said, is that the author of the Torah encoded their names and therefore the author must be God because he knew the future. Like the Famous Rabbis example, it cannot prove anything more.